Mark Malatesta – Author Coach & Consultant
Mark Malatesta is an author coach and consultant who writes and speaks about how to become a bestselling author. Mark has helped 400+ authors of all book genres (fiction, nonfiction, and children’s books) get literary agents and/or traditional publishers. For example, Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana, author of The Happiness Formula, a self-help book about personal fulfillment, published by HCI Books, named the #1 self-help publisher by Publishers Weekly, with many national and New York Times bestsellers.
Other authors Mark Malatesta has worked with include Nelson Johnson, author of Boardwalk Empire, adapted for HBO, produced by Martin Scorsese; Scott LeRette, author of The Unbreakable Boy (Thomas Nelson), now a major motion picture (Lionsgate) starring Zachary Levi, Patricia Heaton, and Amy Acker; and Leslie Lehr, author of A Boob’s Life: How America’s Obsession Shaped Me―and You, which is currently being developed as a TV series by Salma Hayek for HBO Max.
Mark Malatesta was a literary agent and AAR member before he became an author coach/consultant and wrote this guide on How to Become a Bestselling Author. Mark is Founder & CEO of Literary Agent Undercover, a division of The Bestselling Author, through which he provides 1-on-1 Literary Agent Advice (coaching and consulting). Mark’s writers have gotten offers of representation from the Best Literary Agents at the Top Literary Agencies, and deals with publishers such as Harper Collins, Random House, and Thomas Nelson. His authors have been on the New York Times bestseller list, sold millions of books, and won countless awards.
Mark Malatesta is also the creator of the well-known Directory of Literary Agents, with a comprehensive List of Literary Agents seeking authors. In addition, Mark is the host of Ask a Literary Agent, and author of this popular How to Get a Literary Agent Guide. His articles have appeared in outlets such as the Writer’s Digest Guide to Literary Agents and the Publishers Weekly Book Publishing Almanac. Click here to learn more about Mark Malatesta, and here to see Mark Malatesta Reviews. Scroll below to access Mark’s interview with Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana, author of The Happiness Formula (HCI Books).
Interview with Former Literary Agent Mark Malatesta
During this interview, Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana talks about his book, advice for writers, and experience working with former literary agent Mark Malatesta, who helped Alphonsus get a top literary agent. That led to Alphonsus getting multiple offers from publishers. Alphonsus is the author of The Happiness Formula, a self-help book about personal fulfillment, published by HCI Books, named the #1 self-help publisher by Publishers Weekly, with many national and New York Times bestsellers.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana Success Story
“I got offers from two publishers, but HCI Books has a lot of bestsellers and they seemed like the best fit. The rejections were very hard for me to take. After all the work you made me do, I wasn’t expecting to get so many rejections. There were bleak moments and it was devastating, but then I got a very good literary agent, Steven Harris with CSG Literary Partners. When I called you, you were always on it. You’re very organized and always knew what we talked about the last time. It’s really amazing. I can’t tell you how happy I am. I’ll always be grateful.”
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana
The Happiness Formula
(HCI Books)
The review of Mark Malatesta above is an edited excerpt. Click here to see the complete Mark Malatesta review, and click here to see more Mark Malatesta reviews.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana Interview
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana is the author of The Happiness Formula, a self-help book published by HCI Books. During this interview (both text and audio) Alphonsus shares his advice to help authors of all Book Genres be successful. He also talks about his experience working with Mark Malatesta, a former literary agent turned author coach and consultant, who helped Alphonsus get a top literary agent, which led to offers from multiple publishers.
Pt 1 – Mark Malatesta Interview with Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana
Mark Malatesta: Hi everyone, this is Mark Malatesta with TheBestsellingAuthor.com and Literary Agent Undercover, helping authors of all genres write, publish, and promote their work. I’m the writer who went undercover and became a literary agent, to find out how to get my own books published. A literary agent is someone who gets authors book deals with traditional publishers such as Harper Collins, Thomas Nelson, and HCI.
Today I’m an author coach who’s helped hundreds of authors get offers from literary agents and/or traditional publishers. My writers have gotten 6-figure book deals and advances with major publishers. They’ve been on the New York Times bestseller list; had their work picked up for TV, stage, and feature film (with companies like Paramount Pictures, DreamWorks, Lionsgate, and HBO Max); won countless awards; and had their work licensed in more than 40 countries, resulting in millions of books sold.
Now, let me introduce today’s special guest.
Pt 2 – Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana Interview with Mark Malatesta
Mark Malatesta: Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana is the author of The Happiness Formula, a self-help book about personal fulfillment, published by HCI Books, named the #1 self-help publisher by Publishers Weekly, with many national and New York Times bestsellers.
In 1979, Alphonsus was awarded a national research grant and fellowship to develop an instrument for measuring human hope. The goal was to detect hopelessness early enough in troubled individuals so assistance could be offered to prevent suicide.
The Hope Index Scale or “H.I.S” that resulted from his grant, became popular with Fortune 500 companies and other institutions in the US and abroad, leading to decades of research that ultimately resulted in this cutting-edge book.
Unlike other books about happiness, which are too often filled with dos and don’ts, wishful thinking, and empty aphorisms, The Happiness Formula breaks new ground, introducing a universal unit of measure called the Personal Happiness Index or P.H.I.
Despite its title, The Happiness Formula is more than just a mathematical equation for measuring happiness. It’s a reminder of what matters most, and it’s a guide to living a more fulfilling life.
To learn more about Alphonsus, visit TripleHProject.com.
So welcome, Alphonsus!
Pt 3 – Mark Malatesta Interview with Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Thank you very much for having me, Mark.
Mark Malatesta: My pleasure. Let’s make people happier, shall we?
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Definitely.
Mark Malatesta: [Laughter] Alright, so I threw some terms out there, index that and unit this. Let’s get you talking a little more about the book. I know a lot of people listening will want to get a copy. Who doesn’t want to be happier?
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Definitely. Perhaps what I should do is just tell you why I wrote this book.
Mark Malatesta: Absolutely.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: I wrote this book for four major reasons. Number one, I wanted to share my chance discovery of a simple equation that makes it possible for the first time ever, to measure happiness, both subjectively and objectively, simultaneously.
Number two, I wanted to introduce a 12-item self-assessment tool for differentiating flourishing individuals from languishing individuals, and those who are in between these two extremes. Also to help identify happy, unhappy, very happy, or very unhappy [people], regardless of cultural and socioeconomic differences.
The number three reason for writing this book was to offer a strong theoretical basis and a firm practical structure for happiness coaching, as there is currently, no existing standard to guide happiness coaches.
Number four was to provide happiness seekers with a proven routine for advancing and sustaining a flourishing life.
Mark Malatesta: There’s so much to that. I love the flourishing versus languishing, by the way.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Thank you.
Pt 4 – Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana Interview with Mark Malatesta
Mark Malatesta: That’s interesting. There are so many applications of this, right? Because if you suddenly can measure something, then you can see, oh, how do these happier people…what’s the difference with their life expectancy or job performance, or how long somebody stays at a job or in a relationship, right?
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Definitely, and we all want to be happy. However, there is no very good way, until this book, for measuring happiness. You cannot improve what you cannot accurately measure. When you measure it, and you find your personal happiness index, you know where you are on the spectrum, and you know where to go.
Mark Malatesta: Yes, and there aren’t really many other metrics out there, you know. There’s that one big report that comes out every year in the spring that talks about the happiest countries or the happiest people in certain countries and things like that, but yours goes to another level, right?
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Definitely. The report you’re talking about is released every year. The World Happiness Report is released every year in March, when the United Nations celebrates International Happiness Day, but the method they use in deciding the happiest country is very seriously flawed.
The Fins, or people of Finland, who’s country has been declared the happiest country in the world, may not be flourishing as much as you would think. Just to give you three reasons for a minute. Number one, there’s a high suicide rate in Finland, which is actually higher than the suicide rate in Afghanistan, which has been declared the unhappiest country in the. World.
Mark Malatesta: Wow, okay.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Number two, the use of antidepressants in Finland is one of the highest in Europe. And, of course, because of the seasons they have there, the very punishing seasons where there are weeks of no sunrise, and heavy snowstorms, there’s an endemic condition called S.A.D. or Seasonal Affective Disorder, that is very, very severe in Finland.
Mark Malatesta: Right, right.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: So I would hope the authors of the World Happiness Report try some other better tool for deciding the happiest countries in the world. In some places where I have presented and talked about my book… For instance, I was at the World Happiness Summit in Costa Rica, the University of Peace in Costa Rica. I was telling them about my personal happiness index score. It is 2.932. I’m not flourishing yet. To flourish is 4.0 or above. I’m working on it. Everybody can be happier, including the author of the scale, because the scale is not just subjective, it is also objective, simultaneously.
Mark Malatesta: Yep, and anytime an author or coach or agent or whomever thinks they have it all figured out, they absolutely don’t. We’re all constantly growing, whether we like it or not. I’m so glad I asked you that, because I know, initially, somebody might hear something like, “Oh, here’s a formula that will help anybody measure happiness.” …I can imagine a lot of skepticism, right? But when you start talking about some of those things you just talked about, it starts to get interesting quickly. I hope people will open themselves up to it. I can imagine the media being very interested, in some of those things you were just sharing.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Thank you very much.
Pt 5 – Mark Malatesta Interview with Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana
Mark Malatesta: Now let’s go back to how everything happened. Everybody’s journey is different, but at least for this audience, the people that are part of my network, most of them are interested in publishing and trying to get a book published. So let’s go back to when got the news you were going to be working with a successful agent. How did that unfold? What were you doing the moment you found out that was a reality?
After reliving that briefly, relive a little bit what it was like to get the wonderful news that there was at least one publisher out there who was interested. I don’t remember those exact details. So relive that, celebrate that a little bit, and let me know, let us know, if you did anything to celebrate. Some people do, some don’t, but it’s fun to hear.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Actually, my celebration is still going on. I’m glad to be taken seriously and have my manuscript taken seriously by a well-known publishing house, and I’m happy to have my manuscript come to life as a book. I have been grateful for that, and I will remain grateful for that, because I wanted to share what I have to let people know. My celebration is still going on.
Mark Malatesta: That’s good. It doesn’t have to end. And every day the book is out there, you’re able to talk about it, and people are asking about it, is a good day.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Definitely.
Mark Malatesta: Do you remember, had you been querying for a while when you got the offer from the agent? Any details about how that unfolded, or getting an offer from the publisher that are interesting or memorable?
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Well, as you know, before the good news came, there were very nervous and anxious moments when I heard from many literary agents that I contacted and consulted with. There were some that told me that this was not a good fit for them. There were others that were interested and very encouraging in the beginning. Later on, their interest in the book faded. I was lucky to have one agent who then took me on. And within a couple of weeks or so, we had some offers.
Mark Malatesta: Oh, I didn’t remember it was that fast. I did believe it was multiple offers, but I didn’t want to say that during the interview, in case I was wrong. But I thought that was true also. It’s always more fun when you have more than one.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Yes, and choosing between them was very easy. One had the history of some bestsellers. Both of them, because I was a relatively unknown writer, the advance was also better with the one I chose. Although both advances were not as handsome as celebrities would get, I was happy. And the publishing house was very accommodating. Sometimes it can take over a year to have your book published. The publisher listened to my plea to have the book released around March, which is the time the UN celebrates International Happiness Day.
Mark Malatesta: To take advantage all the publicity and media that comes at that time.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Exactly, and that’s what we are still trying to capitalize on. They have been very cooperative.
Pt 6 – Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana Interview with Mark Malatesta
Mark Malatesta: I know you’ve been writing various things for a long time, but do you remember when you first got the idea you might be a writer or an author?
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: As you know, I am a physician, and I was teaching medical students and residents. To get promoted at work and climb up the ladder, you have to publish. So I had been writing and publishing in medical journals, in peer review medical journals, but I also enjoy writing. In fact, that was one of the reasons why I came to the United States. I did not want to choose between arts and science, as you are required to do in my home country, Nigeria.
Mark Malatesta: Ah.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: We took after the British system. At the age of 15 or 16, you have to decide whether you are going to the arts or into science. I was very interested in both. I love psychology, Shakespearean literature. I also love chemistry and physics, mathematics. So it was very traumatic for me, trying to decide. When I became a first-year student in the university studying biochemistry, I visited the US. My host, who was an engineering student, was carrying an anthropology book in the summer. I asked, “Why are you carrying an anthropology book when you’re an engineering student?”
Mark Malatesta: [Laughter]
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: He said, “In the United States, with your first degree, you do everything, including physical education. I called my dad and told him I was not coming back. That’s exactly how it happened, and my dad was not very pleased about that.
Mark Malatesta: [Laughter]
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Later on, he was convinced. So, as I finished my medical practice, now, writing up my scientific findings over the years has become very, very fulfilling, taking up the literary side…expressing the literary side of my interest.
Mark Malatesta: When and how did you make the transition from writing that academic, scientific journal type of writing to the much friendlier and more enjoyable to read book? I’m not saying it’s not written in a way that the scientific, medical, or academic community wouldn’t respect it, because it is. But there’s a big difference between those two types of things. When did you start writing, friendly or easier to read things?
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Well, I had a lot of help with that. As a matter of fact, you even contributed to that. For instance, as you may remember, the title of my book, when I met you, was The Mathematics of Happiness. You were the one who told me that was very academic sounding. Thinking about it, along with you, quite a few people, perhaps have some aversion towards mathematics. They might not be interested in a mathematical book. In fact, you suggested and talked me into changing the title of the book.
Pt 7 – Mark Malatesta Interview with Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana
Mark Malatesta: It was easy on one hand, because you had the phrase “the happiness formula” in the book. And it was not easy on the other hand, because you didn’t want to change it. But I’m very glad you were open enough to do it, and I’m very glad the publisher went with it. The right title goes a long way.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Yes, definitely. And I consulted with some writing coaches, and they did help me. As you know, this is my third book. I have two other books: The Five Sources of Human Hope, and How to Live a Life of Hope. In writing those, it helped me arrive at the time when this book came along. As many of the reviewers are saying, it’s a very easy to read book, and I’m glad it is so.
Mark Malatesta: Right. I won’t ask you again about how you got the idea for the book, because I believe I shared that with everyone during the introduction. You know, it evolved naturally based on the research and things you were doing. Is there anything else that was important to you as part of your “author education?” Outside of the writing coaches, were there classes, courses, books on writing, anything like that that you think helped?
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Well, as you know, in medical school, you rotate through different branches of medicine. You rotate through surgery, you rotate through pediatrics, you rotate through psychiatry. When I was rotating through psychiatry, that’s when I came in contact with, particularly, two patients we admitted for attempted suicide. That is what really brought my attention to the issue of human hope. The assumption was that, and it still is, that people who attempt suicide are doing it because of loss of hope.
My thinking was that if we can measure hope and can determine people who score low on the hope scale, attention can be paid to them soon enough, or sooner than before they start having suicide ideation. That is how this came about. Luckily, as a medical student, I got a national grant to develop a hope scale, and that hope scale became very popular.
It’s used by Coca Cola, General Motors, the Veterans Administration, and many academic institutions inside and outside of the United States. This interest kept me going. I was studying this continuously out of personal interest, and there was always more to learn about it. I was gathering data.
When the movement of positive psychology came on around the year 2000, I had been studying human hope for 20 years. The psychologists, now we are saying that happiness is the thing about human beings that we are all wanting, to get to get happy, and our happiness is most important as this the major interest in life.
Mark Malatesta: Exactly.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: And my question was, I thought hope is what is lost when people attend suicide, right? What is, then, the difference, or the similarity, between hope and happiness? Can you have one without the other? That’s how I began to start studying happiness also, and finally came to see the relationship between hope, happiness, and our desires, especially unfulfilled desires, which I call hunger.
Mark Malatesta: After survival.
Pt 8 – Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana Interview with Mark Malatesta
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: That is how the eureka moment came, and I saw the relationship between hunger, hope, and happiness, and looking at it the best way. The best language I could find to precisely explain the relationship was a mathematical one, and that’s what came to the hope over hunger equals happiness as a formula.
Mark Malatesta: It’s funny, the hope aspect really has stuck with me since our work together. I think you can notice, if you’re paying attention…it can be in any situation, right? It could be with a client you have, or it could be in your marriage or family relationship. Whatever it is, but, often, when we start getting the most unhappy, or maybe doing or thinking about some destructive behavior, it’s because the hope is going out the door, right?
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Definitely. Human beings, we are very prospective in nature. We are futurians or futurists. Even if everything is good today, we are thinking about tomorrow, next week, next year. That fills us with anxieties and uncertainties, and the only thing that can give you some comfort about uncertainty of the future is hope. That’s the only thing.
So the feeling that all will be okay is very, very important. In my interpretation, now, a happy life is a life that is full of hope. For me, the happy life is the life that is full of hope. With that hope, you can be flourishing as much as you want to be, a doctor’s call comes come back to you that your biopsy is found to be cancerous. Everything falls apart. Okay, so when the future looks bleak, everything goes down.
Mark Malatesta: It’s funny, there’s a parallel when querying agents. You were querying agents long enough to experience this…you don’t have to share anything about it unless you want to. But one of my biggest jobs as an author coach is not something people are usually expecting or signing up for. But you know what happens.
You can be as happy and hopeful as you want with a great book, and you know it’s meaningful and it can help people, and you start querying, and that hope is high, right? The more weeks and months go by as you’re querying, the hope is dropping, the hope is dropping, the hope is dropping. And at some point an author might still have 50% of the agents left that they could query, but you know what, if they’re not sustaining that hope, they’re done. They stop.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Exactly.
Mark Malatesta: That’s all psychological, because if there are still a lot of agents left to query, logically, of course you should continue, but we’ve got to nurture that hope, because that’s just as important.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Yes, and the intensity of your hunger. Your fulfilled or unfulfilled desire, being the denominator of that equation. When your unfulfilled desire is intensified, then your hope decreases. And happiness, of course, will decrease. So when your hope is high, the proverbial phrase about seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, that’s what it’s all about.
Pt 9 – Mark Malatesta Interview with Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana
Mark Malatesta: You know, it brings your hope up that okay, the exit is finally here. And that’s what brings immediate relief and happiness. And when you get a raise at work, get a raise in pay, even before you get the first paycheck, reflecting the raise in pay, you are happier, even before the money gets to your hand. So hope is very, very important in human life.
Mark Malatesta: I don’t usually tease listeners or readers, but I’m going to tease them with this and say that there is one thing in your book that I don’t want to spoil. It takes a unique approach to how we’re born, where most of the world, psychologists and doctors, everybody, thinks we’re born a certain way, and you take a unique approach that’s interesting and helpful in the book. That’s one more reason people should get a copy of it, for that chapter.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Thank you.
Mark Malatesta: Mm-hmm. Now, let’s talk about writing a book. It doesn’t matter if you’re talking about somebody writing a nonfiction book of any category, could be self-help, could be something else, or maybe you’re just speaking generally. What are some tips that have worked for you, that could work for somebody whether they’re writing even a novel or a screenplay or something? What are your best one, two, or a few tips for somebody in the process of writing a book, or thinking about it?
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: I’m just going to talk about my experience. You should have something you really want to write about. If you are just trying To be an author without a burning desire to articulate some finding, some belief you have, the writing might not be as easy.
Mark Malatesta: Right?
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Just trying to be an author. I don’t care what I want to write about, I just want to be an author. For me, my drive was I knew I had something to communicate and that’s what it was. I love to write. People talk about ghostwriters, but I could never use a ghostwriter. I enjoy writing myself.
I could get some help. I have some writing coaches, but not give the book to a ghostwriter. I would say, to write, have a topic, an area, that you really want to talk about, and then you have to have a way of putting it into words. Your ideas into words. And you’re going to need help.
You might know how to write, but writing for the reading public, writing as a university professor in medicine, is different. People were paying to come to school to learn, and all I had to do was give them the information, but convincing somebody to your position, as a writer, that’s very different.
Pt 10 – Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana Interview with Mark Malatesta
Mark Malatesta: And, like you, write about something you’re hungry to learn more about, mean, nobody wants to read a book… Well, I’ll flip it and put it a positive spin on it. That makes more sense. We prefer reading books by authors who are extremely knowledgeable about what they’re writing about. That way, if we are knowledgeable about that topic, also, we’re more likely to learn something. Like, I’m well read and a psychology major, I love this stuff, and I was well read in this area when I met you. But I still learned new things from your book, right? That’s because you’re all in, and passionate about it.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Thank you, and it’s helped me personally in my life. When you are using the knowledge you are gaining from research to influence your own life, and it’s working, that is one of the biggest rewards.
Mark Malatesta: I love that, it’s so funny. You take, you flash me back all the way to when I was a kid and going into college, that was at my exact thinking. I was thinking about becoming a psychologist or maybe a minister or something. I awanted to be in a profession where I could constantly learn about how to be a better person, and if I could help the world somehow, while doing that in a profession, how great would that be? That’s almost what you were saying.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Exactly, exactly.
Mark Malatesta: Now, what about publishing? What made you decide to go with a traditional publisher and try that versus self-publishing?
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: As you know, I was self-published twice before. Traditional publishing, as I saw it, had many advantages in terms of publicity. When you self-publish, the book is printed and is just for you to go ahead now and tell people, show it to people. That’s very, very hard. The traditional publisher will help you with that, and the fact that they are even agreeing to publish your book, is an achievement in itself.
The publisher has to see there is promise in that manuscript to publish it. That in itself, is an achievement. In addition to that, when you self-publish vs traditional publishing, the audience, your audience also sees the difference. They know the difference. I wanted to be in that category of recognized authors, in that respect.
Mark Malatesta: Yes, and you’re so much more likely to get things reviewed. I have an author I worked with who, like you, ended up with a traditional publisher. So happy. Then something happened. I don’t remember what the disagreement was with the author and the publisher, but the author told me, after the fact, he had withdrawn his book from the publisher and was going to self-publish it. I didn’t say it this way, because the ship had already sailed, but I was devastated. He’s not realizing all the implications of that.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Yes.
Pt 11 – Mark Malatesta Interview with Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana
Mark Malatesta: I was thinking, well, gee, there are certain things I can do with some of my authors, to help them get exposure, if they have a traditional publisher. But once I knew, okay, he’s self- published, I’m like thinking, oh, I can’t tell him about any of that, because I’m not going to be able to help him get his book in front of certain people, if we just have to say, “Oh, here’s my self-published book.” They’re not going to pay attention and trust it. With the name of that publisher behind it, you know, all of a sudden, it’s legitimate in many people’s eyes. I’m not saying it should be that way, but it is that way.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: It is definitely that way. It is definitely that way, because when I tell people my publisher, HCI books, they’re recognized by the industry, and the book is being distributed by Simon & Schuster, that means something too.
Mark Malatesta: Right, the book must be pretty good if you got them. That’s just how it goes. At least pretty good. It’s very good, but, in a person’s mind, it must be decent, if it has that kind of publisher.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Definitely, definitely.
Mark Malatesta: So, now, what about promoting or marketing a book? You know, this is an ongoing thing, a learning curve. But, long before you even tried to get an agent, we did some things together to help with marketing and promotion. Now that you have a publisher, you’re learning and doing things about promotion. What do you think authors of any genre should be thinking about or doing? Maybe, prior to going to an agent a bit, and after?
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Well, looking back on my own experience, especially in working with you, there were many areas we were stressing, some homework you gave to have completed before the next meeting. Some of them were taxing. Now, after experiencing the whole thing, I can see why you were insisting on that level of excellence and completion. There are many things we did together that came out to be very contributory to the success of the book.
Mark Malatesta: The biggest thing, I think, was you reaching out to possible promotional partners. You know, I suggest everyone do that. Reach out to authors, experts, podcast hosts, bloggers, different influencers, to see if they might be open to accepting a review copy of the book, or having you as a speaker, things like that.
You already had some good things in your background, right? We shared some of them in your bio and earlier. But more is always better. More ability that we can demonstrate to agents, that you can get exposure and sell books. More emphasis like, “Hey, here’s proof that more influential people have already expressed some early interest.”
That means, to them, even though we don’t say it directly, they think, “Hey, this book must be pretty good, and the writing must be pretty good, the ideas must be pretty good if he has some of these well-known people saying they’re interested.” Right? Then of course, we can get more eyeballs on the book once it’s published, if we’re already getting people expressing interest, even prior to getting an agent. The more of that, the better.
Pt 12 – Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana Interview with Mark Malatesta
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: One of the people who commented in my book was Dr. Carol Graham, who works at the Brooklyn Institute. She is the author of Happiness Across the Globe.
Mark Malatesta: That’s a title, a book title?
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Yes, and also, I think the subtitle was Happy Peasants and Miserable Millionaires…or Miserable Millionaires and Happy Peasants.
Mark Malatesta: [Laughter] Got it.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: When she used the term, she said my book was provocative and thoughtful. I took that as a good compliment.
Mark Malatesta: Did you tell her that there also happen to be some happy millionaires and miserable peasants?
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Of course.
Mark Malatesta: [Laugher] She knows, it’s just a fun subtitle.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Definitely, definitely.
Mark Malatesta: Alright, so let’s talk a little bit about our work together, so somebody can get a sense of that. And again, I’m always thinking bigger picture, because everybody’s different. Some people will be a fit for me, some people will be a fit for somebody else. So, I just want everybody to get help. Like you said, the more important your work is to you, the more important you should treat it.
Now, you’re an educated man, right? You’ve done things at a high level. You’ve written other books, but you still hired writing coaches. You still work with me. There’s always stuff we can do to become better, especially if it’s in a niche we’re not the ultimate expert in. So, open ended question, every person’s different, every book’s different, but what are a few things you remember that you believed personally were the most important for you that helped us get to that happy outcome?
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Okay. When I came to you, I made the decision that I needed some help. I knew that, so I was ready to listen.
Mark Malatesta: What was it that made you think that? Because a whole lot of people don’t think they need help, or don’t realize it. Was there something you were struggling with, or you just know that from your history, if you’re going to go do something new, you get help?
Pt 13 – Mark Malatesta Interview with Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Yes, I wanted a traditional publisher. In fact, I was looking around when I saw your name on the Internet, and I read more.
Mark Malatesta: So you were researching the process of getting a traditional publisher, and that’s when you stumbled across my stuff?
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Exactly. I wanted somebody to help me, and so I was ready to listen and use a proven technique that somebody could give me to help in my situation.
Mark Malatesta: And, of course, as the scientist of the mathematics of happiness and the happiness formula, you were looking for “your publishing formula.”
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Yes, exactly. Exactly. I knew I needed help with that publishing formula. You’ve got to have some help.
Mark Malatesta: [Laughter]
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: So that’s what I was looking for. You know, you + help = a publishing success. [Laughter]
Mark Malatesta: Exactly.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: So I was already there, and I needed some help. That’s why I was going through the Internet and trying to find…and of course, there are quite a few people who claim they can help you, and you have to make a choice. There are experiences I read about of some people, and so I was very careful. Reading testimonials was good.
There are people who have testimonials that are different, and there are certain things you have to feel how convincing they are. How successful did the people writing the testimonial become? What difference did the consultation make? Quite a few things to consider. When I saw your name and experience, especially your previous experience as a literary agent yourself, that was very convincing and indicative of the possibility I would get the best advice from these venues.
Mark Malatesta: People should look at testimonials. There should be some, and ideally a lot of them, and especially somebody who’s familiar with your genre, right? It doesn’t matter how smart they are and how much experience they are. If they haven’t helped authors in your particular genre have success, that’s not as good.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Definitely.
Mark Malatesta: I had somebody earlier today asking me about short stories, and I was like, “Sorry, I’m just not the best person for you. You’ll need to find somebody else?” Same thing if somebody has a book of poetry, “Well, I’m not the best person for that. There aren’t enough agents interested in that.” I steer them in another direction. There’s always going to be somebody that’s real knowledgeable about your niche.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Yes.
Pt 14 – Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana Interview with Mark Malatesta
Mark Malatesta: By the way, you may not remember this. It may not have been a big deal for you. It was a huge deal for me. It was relatively early in our coaching process, and I was trying to get you to change some things in your manuscript, beyond the title. It was more the organization and the flow, and adding some things, and you really didn’t want to. I was quietly nervous about that, waiting to see what was going to happen.
We’d gone back and forth a few times, and then you just came back and you did it. I was so relieved. That’s the stuff, if somebody is going to get coaching, you have to…well, you don’t have to anything…but to have the best chance, if you’re putting yourself in that position, trust, trust, at some point. There are going to be multiple moments when that happens, right?
That was the big one. I was like, “Uh-oh.” Once we made it through that, I relaxed more, and I was like, okay. I was so happy. I told you I was so thankful, because it may seem like a little thing, but those little moments add up, and they’re what ultimately helps decide what kind of outcome we have. I’m just so grateful, because there’s only so much the coach can do, right?
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Yeah.
Mark Malatesta: It’s that teamwork, I’ll always be grateful for that.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: That was very telling. You did not push like, “Oh, you must do this.” You gave it to me, very subtly, as an option, as a good option for me to think about. That was enough to persuade me, although it was very difficult, because I’d arranged the chapters. You brought out some chapters that were in the back that should be earlier in the book. So my rearranging the whole thing to still make it sequentially logical was the challenge I was facing. You did not sound very dictatorial or even nervous about it.
Mark Malatesta: [Laughter]
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: You just told me, “It is a good idea, and I hope you think about it.” I’m glad I did.
Pt 15 – Mark Malatesta Interview with Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana
Mark Malatesta: It’s all coming back to me now. I also remember, I don’t want to spend a lot of time on it, but I remember the target market. You were trying to reach two different target markets in your book. I implored, “Please, scale back on this other one, because if we try to split the baby too much, or try to speak too much to the two different audiences, I think we’re going to be in trouble.” You shifted that too, which was good.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Yes, definitely, definitely.
Mark Malatesta: Alright, so let’s see here, any last thoughts or advice?
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Well, if somebody is in my shoes trying to get traditional publisher, you’re going to need help, and you need someone who is very informed in the area we are talking about. I think someone who has made a living doing the work of a literary agent, and then making a change to advise people how to get a literary agent, I think that is very unique. I would tell people to really think about that. That’s very unique.
Mark Malatesta: For me, it’s fun. Somebody will ask me once a while, they don’t understand, “Well, why did you stop being an agent?” I think, well, you know, there are like, 1,400 of those out there already, or whatever it is, but there aren’t that many people in this space. It’s really rewarding and it’s really challenging, but that’s partly why it’s rewarding, right?
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Definitely. So, to sum it all up, Mark, I am glad I met you. And I’m grateful for the guidance you gave.
Mark Malatesta: Likewise. I’m much happier knowing you, in more ways than one. So thank you again for doing this, and really, your book is unique in that I think everybody listening to an interview like this, or reading a transcript should buy the book. It’s not always like that. As you said earlier, we all want to be happier…and help those we care about be happy.
Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana: Of course, definitely, definitely.
Pt 16 – Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana Interview with Mark Malatesta
Mark Malatesta: Okay everyone, this is Mark Malatesta, founder of The Bestselling Author, with Alphonsus Obayuwana, author of The Happiness Formula, published by HCI Books. You can get a copy everywhere books are sold. I love the sound of that. And you can learn more about Alphonsus at TripleHProject.com.
And, if you’re interested in a private 1-on-1 coaching call with me, to talk about the best way to write, publish, or promote your book, visit AuthorConsultation.com.
Lastly, if you’re listening to this interview—or reading the transcript—and you’re not yet a member of my online community, register now [it’s free] at TheBestsellingAuthor.com for instant access to more information (and inspiration) like this, to help you become the bestselling author you can be.
Remember…
Getting published isn’t luck, it’s a decision.
See you next time.
Author Coach & Consultant – Mark Malatesta
Here you can see more success stories from authors like Dr. Alphonsus Obayuwana, who’ve worked with Mark to get literary agents like Regina Ryan, and publishers like HCI Books. You can also see testimonials about Mark Malatesta from publishing industry professionals. These testimonials are from Mark’s time as an author coach and consultant, literary agent, and Marketing & Licensing Manager for the book and gift publisher Blue Mountain Arts.
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